Agree again. I consider myself a Christian and I dig where you are coming from. You mention some French thinkers I have not read yet but I agree with the Myth of Progress concepts. The last French philosopher I read was Focault and he was on point about being skeptical of all institutions. I am going to subscribe and as long as you never use fear to bring people to Christ I may even recommend and pay eventually. God Bless.
Perennialism is only so much relativism dishonestly presented as absolutism. And too often lends itself to fascism. If it isn’t just an attempt of Sufis to gain converts.
Well, I wasn't claiming that all 'Perennialists' are perfect by any means, but their critique of modernity has also led a lot of people that I know of personally, to Orthodoxy as well.
Also, their attempted critique of modernism is a bit dishonest, seeing that they fail to recognise (refuse to acknowledge) that nationalism and race are innately modern concepts. Likewise with their rejections of republics and democracies, both of which have precedent in the ancient world. They also fail to recognise how much modernity owes to Hume and Gibbon. No surprising, because then they’d have to eat crow and admit that a lot of things they don’t like can’t be blamed on Marx or Freud.
In short, perennialism is not actually a rejection of modernity but itself a fringe movement of the 20th Century.
Besides having an issue with the 'Perennialists' in general, do you disagree with any of what I have selected from Ellul's writings as being in opposition to what we, as Orthodox Christians believe about Technology and Technique?
Or about the modern world that is, in many ways, the result of Technique and Technology?
Or about the fact that, despite their obvious deficiencies that you have pointed out, that their writings have led many to discover and embrace Orthodoxy?
In terms of leading (some) people to Orthodoxy, I’ve noticed that one too many former Perrenialist gives up on Orthodoxy to become Shia or Sufi. The vast majority of them noticeably do that.
Ellul was noticeably far left, but still wanting to be Christian. I spent a couple of decades doing that but gave up to become apolitical. Theoretically Christianity and the far left should work together. In actuality it’s impossible for a Christian to effectively position themselves as left and for a leftist to place themselves in Christianity. That.wasn’t the case in the past decades. That might change in the future but I’m not hopeful about it. Suffice to say, I don’t know how we switch lanes from Ellul’s anarchism to the reactionary side of perennialism. Their critiques of technology might dovetail (but might not), but their proposals diverge drastically.
Fascinating piece, many observations more than insightful, felt. I believe the fallacy though is the implication that we (Mankind) cannot be the vehicle of our own redemption.
Two things came to mind immediately when reading your piece here:
1) Emile Zola's novel "Nana" ((Part of the Les Rougon-Macquart (#9) Series) - likely triggered by: "Having escaped the corruption that is in the world..." and
2) The Singularity Is Near (have you written anything on this?)
https://open.substack.com/pub/stevenberger/p/creation-by-mere-thought?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1nm0v2
https://substack.com/profile/100124894-steven-berger/note/c-47147563
https://stevenberger.substack.com/p/creation-by-mere-thought?utm_medium=reader2
https://youtu.be/BOCtu-rXfPk?feature=shared
The betrayal of technology
https://youtu.be/i4MXPIpj5sA?feature=shared
Koyaanisqatsi
https://youtu.be/5aJNN29f8Hk?feature=shared
Modern Times
Great writing on Elul and “technique”! So true, happy to follow you and learn more Steven.
Thank you. That's very kind of you!
I hope it proves to be helpful.
https://youtu.be/W_4no842TX8?feature=shared
Agree again. I consider myself a Christian and I dig where you are coming from. You mention some French thinkers I have not read yet but I agree with the Myth of Progress concepts. The last French philosopher I read was Focault and he was on point about being skeptical of all institutions. I am going to subscribe and as long as you never use fear to bring people to Christ I may even recommend and pay eventually. God Bless.
Perennialism is only so much relativism dishonestly presented as absolutism. And too often lends itself to fascism. If it isn’t just an attempt of Sufis to gain converts.
Well, I wasn't claiming that all 'Perennialists' are perfect by any means, but their critique of modernity has also led a lot of people that I know of personally, to Orthodoxy as well.
Also, their attempted critique of modernism is a bit dishonest, seeing that they fail to recognise (refuse to acknowledge) that nationalism and race are innately modern concepts. Likewise with their rejections of republics and democracies, both of which have precedent in the ancient world. They also fail to recognise how much modernity owes to Hume and Gibbon. No surprising, because then they’d have to eat crow and admit that a lot of things they don’t like can’t be blamed on Marx or Freud.
In short, perennialism is not actually a rejection of modernity but itself a fringe movement of the 20th Century.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s
Might take me a while to watch that!
Just a hundred years.
Got something better to do?
Where’s a laugh react when you need one!
A conversion to Orthodoxy should entail a robust rejection of Perennialism.
Certainly, in it's ecumenist tendencies.
Nevertheless, even if we disagree with what many of them propose as a solution, we don't necessarily disagree with their critique of modernity.
The Perennial Philosophy presupposes a degree of truth that can be found in every tradition.
It's our job to demonstrate how Orthodoxy is the Fullness of the Truth.
We necessarily reject their alleged “critique” as of modernity. See my other comment.
I saw that.
Besides having an issue with the 'Perennialists' in general, do you disagree with any of what I have selected from Ellul's writings as being in opposition to what we, as Orthodox Christians believe about Technology and Technique?
Or about the modern world that is, in many ways, the result of Technique and Technology?
Or about the fact that, despite their obvious deficiencies that you have pointed out, that their writings have led many to discover and embrace Orthodoxy?
In terms of leading (some) people to Orthodoxy, I’ve noticed that one too many former Perrenialist gives up on Orthodoxy to become Shia or Sufi. The vast majority of them noticeably do that.
Ellul was noticeably far left, but still wanting to be Christian. I spent a couple of decades doing that but gave up to become apolitical. Theoretically Christianity and the far left should work together. In actuality it’s impossible for a Christian to effectively position themselves as left and for a leftist to place themselves in Christianity. That.wasn’t the case in the past decades. That might change in the future but I’m not hopeful about it. Suffice to say, I don’t know how we switch lanes from Ellul’s anarchism to the reactionary side of perennialism. Their critiques of technology might dovetail (but might not), but their proposals diverge drastically.
Fascinating piece, many observations more than insightful, felt. I believe the fallacy though is the implication that we (Mankind) cannot be the vehicle of our own redemption.
Really? You think that we can do it on our own?
That's how we got into this mess in the first place!
https://stevenberger.substack.com/p/an-interactive-work-of-art?utm_medium=reader2
Two things came to mind immediately when reading your piece here:
1) Emile Zola's novel "Nana" ((Part of the Les Rougon-Macquart (#9) Series) - likely triggered by: "Having escaped the corruption that is in the world..." and
2) The Singularity Is Near (have you written anything on this?)
Here is a different take on the singularity:
https://open.substack.com/pub/stevenberger/p/creation-by-mere-thought?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1nm0v2
Great - will read, thanks.
And then, there is this:
https://open.substack.com/pub/stevenberger/p/quantum-mechanics?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1nm0v2